Depression Support: Connecting Through Conversations | Carl Binger

Deana Brown Mitchell: 00:00:00

Hi, there, it's Deana and I'm back with Carl Binger. And we are going to be talking about surviving depression. And so Carl, I would love for you to introduce yourself or your subject a little more if you'd like.

Carl Binger: 00:00:15

Absolutely. So, as Dina said, my name is Carl Binger, and I'm a licensed New York State, mental health counselor. I've been a therapist and a counselor since 2014, when I graduated from grad school, and, you know, just kind of got into the field and got my feet on the ground. And let's see, I went into private practice about, I think, six years after grad school. And I started a private practice in 2019. Prep, the name of the practice is luminous mental health counseling. In the theme of the practice, that name is you know, luminance means light. And I want it to be a light to depression. And so, um, I started to private practice in 2019, on Valentine's Day, and I wrote my first book, in last year, the name of the book is the progressive darkness. And I wrote about my experience with depression to try to help men and women, but especially men, to know that it's okay to talk about depression, it's okay. To ask for help. It's okay to need help. And last year, I also started a Facebook group called Surviving depression. It I think it was last year could have been the year before. But I just I, actually, it was the year that COVID started. So I think that was 2020. So in 2020, I started the group, and I think in 2020 hours, so wrote the book, too. But I started the group to help support people dealing with depression, especially during the pandemic. And the group started off really small, like 20 to 30 people. And now it's like up to 600 people. So it's not, you know, it's not a ton, but man from where I started, that's a lot, you know.

Deana Brown Mitchell: 00:02:16

That's awesome. I'm so excited about that. And I am I wanted those 6000 people, and in six months, I was 600. I'm sorry.

Carl Binger: 00:02:25

Yeah, it's okay. Jake,

Deana Brown Mitchell: 00:02:29

I was manifesting for

Carl Binger: 00:02:30

you. Exactly.

Deana Brown Mitchell: 00:02:33

Yeah, it's Carlson some really cool things that the Facebook group but also I want you to talk about the barber shop. Yeah, situation you're doing?

Carl Binger: 00:02:45

Absolutely. So everything kind of started when? Right. So at the, when the pandemic started, I'm sure it's every all the listeners can attest to this. Everyone was born or their mind, like, right, because we couldn't do nothing, just stay in the house. And think of creative ways to help humanity, right. And so what I did was, along with the book, along with the Facebook group, I started to try to like work on these workbooks, on navigating depression and things like that. And after, after about a year or so I was like, Man, I'd love to be able to do like talks and workshops somewhere. And so my barber was like, Hey, man, we know you're a counselor, can you just kind of talk about your experience with depression? And I was like, yeah, man, anytime just asked me anything. And then after I was, you know, barbershop talks, you know, people get very transparent in barber shops. And it's like, it's like a place of solace for a lot of people. In the community. It's like their counseling session, almost. And so the barber was like, Hey, man, this was so special. And you're such a good speaker, when it comes to the this type of thing. Would you would you like want to do something like this quarterly, where we invite a bunch of men? And we just talk about depression? I said, Absolutely. Do let me know. And so we've kind of just been doing that since then. And I did one recently. And I think there are about 20 men there. And it was a great talk. I always have really fantastic. And it's not because of me, it's because of the men that are there. The men that are there, offer phenomenal insight. I love it. I always walk away from it, I think helped just as much as they do. And so I love doing them. I look forward to them all the time. They're always very helpful and insightful time. And so I'm alone with things like that, you know, I just try to do talks in the community, to help bring insight and awareness and break the stigma around depression, you know?

Deana Brown Mitchell: 00:04:55

Absolutely. That's what it's all about. I think the there's three parts to our mission. The first one is conversations. The second is community. And the third is personal story. And I think that we can change the world with those things. Because, you know, I know therapy is necessary and helpful and all of those things. But I think that human connection, in a peer to peer situation really, is very helpful as well. And I know for me, personally, I never wanted to talk about anything, because I never came across anybody who had survived a suicide attempt that was open about it, and made me want to talk about my experience. And so it was, it was that that really drove the mission of this organization. And I also think that I know, our our, our number one mission is to reduce suicide rates. But if we're looking for just people who are already at sea to suicidal ideation, we are not, we're not really catching people before they get there. Right. And so the idea is do our community and our personal stories in our in our books that we publish, are hopefully reaching people. Before they get there, maybe they're in a struggle, but they're not quite to ideation yet. And they're saying, Okay, well, I just read this chapter, and this person has been through something really similar to me. And I even have a link and I can reach out to them and talk to them. Or I can join the scars to source Facebook page, or I can, you know, get involved and tell my own story, because it's very healing to do that. So that's kind of the things that, that we will, how we look at conversations and community, because it's easy to tell people, we need to talk about it, you need to have a conversation. But if you don't have the right space to do that, it's really hard.

Carl Binger: 00:07:02

Absolutely. Yeah, that's very true. And that's why similar to you guys, I started to survive and depression, Facebook group is I wanted to have space for people to feel comfortable and vulnerable enough to actually share their, and I, you know, try to model that as much as possible, and not put the burden on others to do it. And I think in doing so, people feel more comfortable seeing, okay, this is a man who is not afraid to show his feelings and talk about his weaknesses, that enables a lot of people to come on there and do the same thing, you know?

Deana Brown Mitchell: 00:07:46

Well, I think another thing that might give people some hope in their own situation is if you could tell us how you began talking about that, because I know that there was a point in time when you said, Okay, I'm going to talk about this and you hadn't before. So what did that look like for you?

Carl Binger: 00:08:05

Yeah, so the so for me, the experience of depression. I think that really opened the floodgates for me to, to talk about that this particular topic more. I think before depression, I was, you know, a pretty transparent guy. But I think, with the severity of it, and how deep it drove me into darkness, it really forced me in a good way to just really just not hold back with anything when it comes to people suffering and being hurt and being vulnerable. And, you know, so for me, it started way back in college when I first went through depression. And I think it the experience itself, just really broke down a lot of, I guess, stereotypes for men dealing with mental illness and men just suffering and how to deal with suffering in the face of a society that tells you, you can't suffer, or you can't look weak. You know what I mean? It's so it started back in college for me, and I had no idea what was going on. And it started with, like, all the typical symptoms you read about, you know, my sleep was being affected, my diet changed. My my mood was low, depressed, and like, on the tail end of it, I started to feel suicidal as well. You know, so I had like all the textbook symptoms, and irritability and things like that, and but it just progressively got worse. And that's the title of the book I wrote is the progressive darkness, because it progressively went from a cloud to like a pitch black hurtin of misery, you know, and I think that experience, and I, if I could attribute it to something for me, I think it was like a biological, you know, situation like, I don't I don't think it was a situation where, I mean, I think stress of school and not knowing the unknown certainly contributed to it, too. But it was, I think it was, it was biological, I think there was a chemical imbalance, I think it was something that was in my family. And it just, you know, it just kicked in at that particular moment in my life. And, you know, maybe some stressors brought it on at that moment. But it didn't go away until I eventually got to medications. But while I was going through depression, I made a promise that, you know, if I were to come out on the other end of it, I wanted to help any, anyone else who suffered in the same way, so that they never feel alone, you know, and so, and I didn't think it could be used for any good like, I, you know, I believe in God, and I believe there's a purpose. And I was just like, there's no way you can use this for good God. And I think he did. You know, he said, I am totally going to use it for good. It's so I really just keep looking back on that, like, wow, you know, so

Deana Brown Mitchell: 00:11:26

yeah, I think I feel the same way it's done, I think we've talked about this in our community a lot is how scars, scar tissue is stronger than regular skin, and how we can if we can heal from our scars, we can use it for good. And we can do exactly what you said it and help people help other people know, they're not alone, and someone else has been there. And that's really apparent in everything we try to do. Through our events and through our books. And, and, you know, all around. So, I want to talk a minute about about the state of our world with therapists and how I was reading an article, actually, I think our President Lee to send it to me. And it was, it was saying that 60% of us counties don't have a psychotherapist. And that in the other set that I remember is in New York, there are 612 therapists per 100,000 people. And in Idaho, there are none. Wow. And, you know, Carl and I were talking earlier about the fact that his license is in New York. And so it's really tricky for him to help people who don't live in New York. So can you talk to everybody a little bit about that? And,

Carl Binger: 00:12:59

yeah, yeah, so I'll tell you as much as I know, which is not a ton, but um, from what I've read, and what I've, you know, seen on Instagram, and, you know, different social media platforms that I'm on, mostly, like, where I've networked with therapists is on Instagram. So if anyone is looking for a therapist, or just trying to follow a therapist, and their work, in terms of like, you know, thinking better, living better holistically, there's a lot of great therapist on Instagram. And during the pandemic, I found a great network of therapists on Instagram. So that might be something worth checking out if you're on Instagram. So anyhow, as I'm on Instagram, and you know, other social media platforms like Twitter, I see things like legislations or different like bills being passed or push forward. And one of them I think it's the American Counseling Association or one of the counseling associations that have been continuously lobbying and trying to push the effort to allow state licensures to be across state lines and to make it easier to get a license or transfer a license from state to state and to be able to do like telehealth counseling or tele counseling across state lines, because as it stands now, if someone lived in Florida, and they wanted counseling, and they reached out to me in New York State, I don't think ethically I could do that. I don't think I could, you know, counsel them and build them through their insurance. Because as it stands now, it could have changed. As I'm speaking, I have no clue. I haven't looked into it recently. But I think that's one of the barriers is that and in it, and there could be a slight difference between the telehealth aspect and the actual licensure of the therapist moving to another state. So these could actually be two different issues. But I know for sure, one of the issues is like, if I were to move from New York State to Virginia, which I did at one point, the licensure requirements are so different. And it's like, it really shouldn't be that way. If the therapist is in New York State, he should he or she should be able to go to Virginia, and still be able to function as a licensed professional therapist, but other states might make require you to do more, on top of already being licensed in another state. And I think that's primarily what they're trying to address. But I also think the tele health thing is something that it's in the, you know, in the works as well, where if someone in Idaho, I think that's the state you said, right, Idaho, if Idaho is no therapist, how are they getting therapist? No, no therapist want to move? There are no therapists are living there. And I don't know if any therapists are gonna just get up and move to Idaho. So what is the what is one easy solution is to be like, Hey, how about telehealth with some people in New York State or Florida? Or, you know, California? How about that. And that's the first step to kind of help alleviate some of those issues in Idaho. You know what I mean? So if it's not a primary concern, right now, it definitely shouldn't be one of them. You know?

Deana Brown Mitchell: 00:16:32

Yeah. As you're saying that I'm thinking it was one for 100,000. In Idaho, so I need to double check that, but I'm pretty sure it was no one and were in New York, it was 612 or 100,000. So there's a huge gap. I mean, obviously, there's a bigger population. But if you're doing it per 100,000 people, then it's, you know, apples to apples. So, I agree with you. And I never, I don't think ever understood that every state had their own requirements. And I don't, I don't know why that is. I mean, it seems like if you're licensed as a therapist, and you have a psychology degree, and you, you know, have clients that why would it be different in each state? And what could we do? I don't know, maybe it's a lobby issue, whatever it is, or

Carl Binger: 00:17:29

that's what they're working on. Now. Like I said, I think there, there has been progress. Like, again, I don't, I don't know all the details, I've just kind of read up on it briefly. But if you if you do a search or look into it a little bit, I think there has been progress made where there's been, I think, like 10, or 12 states that have agreed, like, Hey, we are locking arms, we are in agreement, that if you're in this state, you can come over to this state. And it's like, if I'm not mistaken, it's like 10, or 12 states, and the number keeps going up. Since the last like, from when I first saw it, it was like five. Now I think it's like 10 or 12. So the number is going up, where if someone's like in New York, and they move to let's say, Idaho is one of the, you know, partnering states, then it's like, Dude, you don't have to, because when I first got my license, it was, I think for New York State, it's 3000 clinical hours, like when you you know, we get out of grad school, you have to sit under a supervisor for 3000 hours. And then you take the exam, which was like, I don't know, 200 bucks, 250 bucks to pay for that. And then if you fail it, you got to, you know, pay for it again, like any other thing. But um, but when I was in Virginia, because I was actually in Virginia, when I, my wife and I got married, we were dating long distance. When I when we got married, I moved to Virginia, but I was still going to grad school in New York, because I had my classes met one weekend per month. So that gave me the ability to still live in Virginia, and then just come up one weekend, a month to take classes. That was only for like eight months or something because I was graduating at the end of my graduation. Anyhow, I looked at the license requirements for Virginia and theirs was 4000 hours under a supervisor. So 1000 hour difference, and you look at it and say why like why the difference? Isn't more competitive isn't more, do they take counseling more serious? You know, do they and so I don't know, I think that could be part of it. You know, like we want our therapists to be extra trained and battle tested before we give them over to licensure. You know, I don't know, but

Deana Brown Mitchell: 00:19:59

it's Well, since we're pre recording this, I might do a little research and have an update for you as at the end of this video, or if you find anything else that could be helpful to the audience do send them to me, or we could maybe just get provide an update at the end of this video for people who are interested in learning more. But I know for sure there is a shortage everywhere and anybody who's tried to get an appointment with a therapist, in the last two years, even, most of them have to wait or they have an issue. And I think that's another reason why building this community is so important. Because if you are in need of therapy, or support, and you can't get therapy, then you know, peer support is the next best thing. And we can help you with resources in your area, we can help connect you with maybe people in our community that are going through similar things or have gone through similar things. So that's kind of the resource we hope to be for everyone that joins our community or comes to our events. And so hopefully, hopefully, that is, you know, becomes a bigger resource. You know, we're, we're growing, but we have a long way to go.

Carl Binger: 00:21:22

Yeah, and I understand that. And it's interesting, as we're talking, I just thought about this, I'm like, thinking of all the work, it must have taken to get people to realize the importance of mental health, you know, to get millions of people on board to break the stigma, and to bring awareness and to bring hope. And then all of a sudden, we don't even have enough therapists. Now, you know what I mean? It's so it's like, everyone, everyone now is on board. And not everyone. But a lot of people seem to be like, dude, and mental illness is no joke, we need to take it serious. But then it's like, now we don't have enough therapists, you know what I mean? It's so maybe it maybe we had enough, and that people are just like, the things that you know, that we're doing these initiatives that we're doing, we're bringing so much awareness that the demand is just going up, you know what I mean? So I'm sure there's a lot of factors with that. But it's just interesting that, you know, I think a lot of therapists and, and just people who suffer from mental illness have been like, we need more awareness around this. And now there is more, but then now, there's a shortage of therapists, you know?

Deana Brown Mitchell: 00:22:40

Well, I've also learned in the last few years, just in my conversations with people that I come across, there's a lot of the younger generation that are going to therapy as preventative. You know, like, I think, my generation and older people were like, I need that if I have a problem, or if I have a diagnosis or whatever. But I think a lot of the younger generation is like therapy is what keeps me from having to deal with all of that. So I think that might be a part of it, too.

Carl Binger: 00:23:15

Absolutely. Yeah, that's true. And I love it. I love the the willingness, the ease of the conversation with younger, younger people, man, because they're just like, Dude, this is like, breathe in air, like therapy is important. You know. So

Deana Brown Mitchell: 00:23:34

it really is, I mean, even even if you don't have a therapist, or you can't afford it, or you can't get access to that, right now, it's having a you can all anybody can always reach out to me, it might take me a minute to get back to you. But I would be happy to have a conversation with anybody. I'm not a licensed therapist, but I have done a ton of research. And just through having this nonprofit for two and a half years now. It's It's taught me so much. And so you know, however, I could help anybody let me know. I mean, Facebook, we have a we have a Facebook group to cut scars to stars live, and anybody can join that you can find it if you search, but make sure you put scars to start live because there are some other scars to start this group. But we do own the trademark for that name now, so that is super exciting for us that we we don't we don't want to keep anyone else from using it. We just didn't want anyone to say that we couldn't. So that's kind of why we did that. But um, what Carl, do you have anything else you want to add? And then after that, would you tell people where to find you?

Carl Binger: 00:24:44

Sure. Let me see. So for me, you know, whenever I'm doing counseling or even just talking on the surviving depression Facebook group, which is also you know, if anyone out there is like, hey, we need a we need a support group we need a group of friends, join, join that, join it if you would like because we talk about, like, whenever one of the members are going through something, we will post it, I'll post things myself. And then you'll have members chiming in, you know, just like any other group, you know, where it's just like, hey, I got this issue, what do you guys think, you know. But one of the things I like to tell people who's dealing with depression, anxiety, any any mental illness really are just struggling mentally, or with the relational conflict is to journal journaling, to me is the most powerful, one of the most powerful things I think I've ever started doing. And I live by it now. And I don't do it every day, like I want to. But when I do, it's just so good for me, and just writing out what I'm thankful for, and writing out what's troubling me. And the same way we talk to human beings. I think, you know, writing on paper, writing on chalkboard, or not chalkboard whiteboard, if you've got a chalkboard, that's fine. But writing, writing stuff out, is like having that sounding board of some sort, whether it's a person, whether it's an audio recorder, whether it's a whiteboard, notebook, it just, it's something about it built in us as humans, to get that out of us is a helpful thing. And so I always encourage everybody, to journal and a lot of people are like, it's so hard. And I'm like, you know, it may be it's easy. For some, it's harder for others, but just write write your thoughts out, write your thoughts out and talk about it. And in, you know, maybe it'll prepare you to talk to your therapist at some point. Or you could just have this dialogue with yourself. And that's helpful, too. So yeah, that's what I would say. And I guess, leave people with that is to journal what you're thankful for, and what's troubling you. And over time, you will even look back months, years later and say, Man, and that's how I that's how I was able to write my book, I kept journal entries. And those all that stuff came from my journals. And so I was able to go back years later and go, Okay, this is what happened that summer, when I went on a break with depression, and I was able to write in detail what happened. And so I would encourage people to do that.

Deana Brown Mitchell: 00:27:37

Yeah, that's great. And I will say journaling is one of the things that really helped me the most, when I finally decided to speak up about my story. And I had not processed any of that stuff for two decades, and I had stuffed it all down. And it took a lot for me to even remember a lot of things. Because I didn't journal during that time. But journaling really helped me get it out of my head, and helped me process in a way that I could talk about it without being emotional. And I think that's part of like, compartmentalizing things, like, when you journal and it's, it's in this book over here now, but it's not like in your head as much anymore. And so I think it really, really helped me as well. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. So, so Well, if you're gonna say anything, but don't forget to tell

Carl Binger: 00:28:36

people. So, yeah, so if you want to find out more about what I do, you can visit being a light.org. It is, you know, my website where I have some information about my private practice, information about the surviving depression, Facebook group, information about my book, and a lot of also my podcast, I don't really do new episodes now. But there's a lot of old episodes on there, with just talking about multiple topics around depression, from thyroids to postpartum depression, to counseling children who are dealing with depression, I have therapist on there. I have, you know, just everyday people on there to talking about how depression has affected them, depression in people with their faith. And so yeah, if you want to check that out, you could check that out too. But I'm also there's a list of all the podcasts that I've ever been on. And so you can just go and check all that out right there on the on the website.

Deana Brown Mitchell: 00:29:46

Awesome. Well, thank you for sharing and being here and having this conversation with me. And hopefully, one one or both of us will give you an update at the end of this video about Some of this stats about the availability of therapist Thank you Carl